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tv   Charlie Rose  Bloomberg  May 10, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT

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>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." provideife's work is to shelter and work for female victims in uganda.
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she was recently named as the 100 most influential people in the world. she is also subject of a documentary narrated by forest whitaker. they were capable young killers, but they could be used as sex slaves for commanding officers. eventually, these girls became mothers themselves. some as young as 13 or 14 years old. six years after he fled northern uganda, these girls were released from physical bondage, but they still remained enslaved , carrying scars from their time in the bush and their captors children on their backs. they had nowhere to turn. firing, have stopped but the war still remains for one woman who directs a small school in uganda.
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she fights for these girls. >> the fate of girls abducted has been in the headlines recently. boko haram kidnapped 30 school girls last month and promised to sell them into slavery. pleased to have sister rosemary at this table for the first time. thank you. happy you could give me this opportunity to speak. >> tell me what you do. >> i have been engaged helping young women and children get out from or their life has been robbed from them. a good number of them were even robbed.
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the young girls were given and used as sex slaves. when they came back, it it was a very difficult life. they did not know how to start and the community were afraid of the children because everybody feared they were trained killers. they were able to kill their own siblings. this many children feared by the community when they came back and this is exactly the time when i thought it was important for me to open the school and make the school become more of a family. where these girls can be accepted and they can restore their childhood and recover from their pain.
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i am always walking with them and together with my sisters, we show the children love and help them. >> forest whitaker writing in the profile of you said, "for girls that were forcibly enlisted as child soldiers, sister rosemary has the power to rekindle a bright light and eyes long gone. she allows them to become loving mothers at last." how do you do that? >> i don't know how to explain that, but i feel very happy. forest explained it nicely. to let these children become loving mothers, they have to receive love. >> to give love, you have to receive love. >> yes. forget their background and walk side-by-side with them. we give them love.
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these girls begin to love their own children and i started giving them skills. i told him the other day whatever skills i giving you, make sure you get married to it because it will be your future. you will get married tomorrow to somebody. it might temporary. it would not help you to take care of the children. learn all the skills, get married to them and you'll see how you will walk with your head up. you will have your dignity restored. your destiny is in your own hands. that is how they became loving mothers because they can provide to their own children. >> you have met children fathered by joseph kony. >> yes. >> what kind of man is he? >> unpredictable. i cannot think of how i can describe him.
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i decided to keep that away and if i really had an opportunity to meet him, the only thing i can say to him is that i forgive you, but i would like you to know i have been caring for your children. i've been restoring the dignity of the girls who you took away. i will forget the tell them that the children have fought back and their dignity is restored. they are the winners. >> how many young girls do you think he has taken? joseph kony? >> at one time, more than 50 girls who were his wives. thousands of girls were taken. sometimes it is difficult to keep the number. >> and we have the story from nigeria. you have said they have been given into sex slavery. it is human trafficking. we should call it evil.
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>> yes. i could not tolerate the kind of thing they are being given into marriage. that pains me because there is no marriage like that. marriage is a noble word. let us call it sex slavery which is evil human trafficking. we must not sugarcoat anything. we must call evil by its name. that means we must come together to really realize and say this is evil we are fighting against. >> you argue the media can make a difference. >> the media can make a difference. not just the media could make things not look right, the media in this case can make it look right. you put up the right title and you can encourage people by saying this is sex slavery. many times people forget. we are all human beings.
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many times the media looks for current issues. they can say easily this is an old story. for the suffering in uganda, some people had the courage to say this is something old and we will not talk about it anymore. in two weeks or three weeks, they say it is something old and we need new topics to put on the front light. i think that is wrong. the media should put this over and over again on the front page and call it by its name and encourage people, call on people that we have to fight this evil. it is not a nigerian issue anymore. it is not an african issue anymore. it is an issue for the world to fight against. >> do you think the world will respond? >> i think the world should respond. >> i know you think they should. do think they will? >> if they don't, those few who can understand and know we must stand up and shout to people. we must come together.
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>> what is it that drives these leaders? >> they're all selfish interests and power and trying to make women look as if they are trash. for women to try to walk through their life and go to study, define their future -- you come and you take them and you say they should stop. it is terrible. it is a way of crushing women again. it is a way of making women to be like second-class citizens in the world. i think that is very wrong. >> the president reacted as you saw. that must please you. >> i was very happy. >> they can do more? >> they can do more. i keep emphasizing the media should keep encouraging, keep talking about this over and over again. sometimes silence doesn't do us any favor in this case.
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this is evil against humanity. what has happened to nigeria now can happen in the united states, can happen in uganda, can happen in any part of the world. let us forget who we are and say if we don't fight this evil, it will happen. let us put ourselves in place of the mothers of these girls or let us put ourselves in the place of these girls. we need to give them the encouragement that they are not forgotten. we will let them walk in hope again. >> when you forsee them, whether it is in uganda or sudan or if you would visit nigeria, tell me how it impacts them because obviously it destroys, in some cases, hope. >> yes. >> you suffer abuse. you suffer, even though -- sexual assault and assault on your dignity. >> it means a lot to be able to
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open arms and embrace these girls. make them feel i am embracing you. i know your background, but i don't care. it is only love and compassion i can show you. if i can embrace you, i can give you love. i know you have been sexually destroyed. i want to encourage you to speak about it. i am as a mother to you. i think these children will know the world cares. let us allow them to cry. we must be able to wipe those tears. we must offer them our shoulders. >> tell us the stories that move you the most.
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>> there are a lot of things that have moved me when i see these young women struggling, i see the resilience. i see how strong they are. it moves me. we must not let them be alone. we have to encourage them and we have to let them know they are made for more. they have a lot of values. the world is caring for them and everybody at this time is going to let them feel their situation and their future can be better. >> we know that sex trafficking is a global phenomenon. >> yes, it is. >> even reaches into the united states. how pervasive is it in africa? >> it is a lot.
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it is everywhere. the only thing -- the silence about it, people are not speaking about it so it is like it is not much. it is there. it is just like any problem towards women who are not speaking about it. it is there. >> to remove the shame there is. >> exactly. when the girls or women are brought to developed countries -- what are people doing about it? i was speaking about it. let us hope and pray that they are not people there who finance that because it is truly evil. >> here sitting with me you seem to say the most important thing we can have is enormous focus from the media and governments with a will and commitment to return the children because you have said we talk about lost boys, it is time to talk about -- >> lost girls. yes.
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everybody knows about lost boys. i am asking, i am questioning everybody. where are the lost girls? nobody speaks about it among us. i was so surprised when one woman told me what i said touched my life. she was one of the lost girls. >> where was this? at the gala you attended? >> i took a picture with her. she said she was one of the sex slaves. i spoke in tennessee about human trafficking and at the end a woman came up and said, sister, what you are talking about is touching my life directly. i have been kidnapped. it touches people. we don't know about them.
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we don't even speak about them. i think the media could do great to highlight this from time to time. >> and not make it yesterday's story. >> it is never a front story. >> do you worry about your own safety? >> let me tell you the truth. if there was any problem that my life comes to an end, it means god is telling me now you don't have much to do. it is finished. i am here talking. i think god is my protector and he wants me to continue doing what i am doing. he wants me to speak on behalf of the voiceless and that is why i say i will not only speak, i will shout. >> with no fear? >> no fear. god takes care of me. my protector, defender is god. i am convinced truth will set me free and set many other people free.
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>> i think god has a purpose for you. >> here i am. >> before i go, i want to talk about this. it is a bool called "sewing hope." joseph kony tore those girls' lives apart. can she stitch them back together? tell me about the tailoring school. >> tailoring is just an umbrella word because we teach many different skills, practical skills to these girls. as you can see, we are using a needle to sew hope. that means we are sewing broken lives together. we are trying to let them to continue working and knowing that they once considered their lives as it it was ended and i always tell them, we will put your life together from where it seems to have stopped. this book actually tells a lot of stories.
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you see the cover is sister rosemary -- the book is not about me. it tells a lot of stories about these children who talk about their own lives. that is why it is very important for people to read this book because they will see the students speaking in the book. it is painful. the book talks about me with my fear and courage which i find funny. i did not know that killing snakes like cobras was my strength and in that book it talks about. >> you can kill a cobra with a stick? >> i killed two of them. i didn't know that the fear i have of caterpillars is something people would love. that is my phobia. i fear it. >> you fear caterpillars? >> too much.
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>> why? >> i don't know. i don't even want to discuss it. this book is beautiful. i don't want to discuss it. don't take me to eat. [laughter] this book written by reggie tells his own life and how he lost hope. and we can encourage women and made him recover from the hopelessness. he just lost a son. meeting me and what i am doing, it brought him hope. if he had any sympathy with himself, he would put it aside. >> this is a scene from "sewing hope." we will see a young woman
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talking about being abducted by joseph kony and his army. here it is. >> that's who they are. >> yes.
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it is a heavy moment always to watch that. it is painful because i am living with these young women. i am not just telling stories. >> she had to kill her sister. when do you go back? >> i'm going back next week. >> what will you do when you get back? >> they keep waiting for me. they know i am coming and bringing them something to do, some work to continue with their life. they ask me have you brought us work? they don't ask me if i am bringing money, they ask for work. i carry so many suitcases and i look like a crazy woman. >> show us that.
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>> these purses are changing the lives of the women and children. >> purses. >> they are made from pop tops. they are sold on the website called i always tell people look at the beauty of these purses and think of what they are made of. the are made of what everyone would consider trash. it is signifying how these young women are considered trash. >> good luck to you. >> thank you so much for having me on this show. >> we will be back. stay with us. ♪ >> lynne cheney is here. she is a historian, best-selling author, and the wife of former vice president dick cheney. not necessarily in that order. her new book is called "james madison: a life reconsidered." the fourth president she says did more than any other to conceive and establish the nation we know yet she senses
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his grand accomplishments are underrated. a historian writes her book demonstrates why madison deserves to stand near the center of our early american firmament. i am pleased to have lynne cheney back at this table. welcome. >> it is a pleasure to be here. >> we saw you on the morning program. everybody is becoming really interested in james madison. that must make you happy. >> i hope i can help in the effort because he has long been our most underrated president. the thought is not original with me. when john kennedy was president he said of madison was the most underappreciated of his predecessors. >> you put him very high up beyond underappreciated because of his accomplishments as i suggested. you really think that this is a man who was responsible for so much of what we are in terms of
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the ideas and beliefs that made the nation. >> exactly. washington has been called the indispensable man but without madison there would've been no a constitution. i think you can fairly make that case. certainly no bill of rights. he was absolutely essential to getting the new government under the constitution underway. he became the first president to take the nation to war under the constitution setting a precedent. i think of all the founders, he is probably most left the impression of his mind on our lives. >> why is he underappreciated? >> maybe because he was calm and reserved. we tend to -- "paradise lost," people always ask why is of the devil is more attractive than god in "paradise lost?" we like our rogue politicians, the ones that shock us a little bit and keep us interested. madison was a man of great steadiness.
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a man who overcame adversity and studied deeply. perhaps we don't like the more saintly of our founders as much. he was a great man. >> tiny in stature. >> 5'6" and charlie, to me that is tall. you are right. his wife was taller than me. >> jefferson was taller. >> jefferson was over six feet. washington was over six feet. someone once observed that one of the virginia conventions, madison may have been the shortest person there. he was very fit. one of the people at the virginia convention in 1776 when virginia was writing its constitution after the breakup from england was becoming apparent, someone wrote how fit he was and how steady his gaze was. thomas jefferson said he had a most commanding presence. >> he is also known by his friendships and his wife.
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dolly madison became a well-known figure in her own right. >> he fell in love with her. he saw her in the streets of philadelphia and fell in love with her. of all people, he asked aaron burr to arrange an introduction. he did and they were married shortly after. it was one of the great political marriages. maybe it wouldn't be now but then what dolly's skill was was to bring people together and make them feel warm and congenial and appreciate her husband. in those days, the congress, the caucuses of the congress, chose the presidential nominees so there is testimony of how dolly's ability to bring people together helped her husband become the presidential nominee. >> he was secretary of state to thomas jefferson who was his longtime friend. >> it was a friendship of many
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years. they had first known one another when madison -- known one another well -- served on what was called the council of state in virginia. all these little government entities try to keep the nation going while we are breaking from britain. they got to know each other then and it was a friendship that lasted through life. at the end of it, jefferson wrote to madison and said please take care of me when i am dead. he meant to take care of my reputation, guard my reputation. jefferson was a little bit flamboyant in his speaking ways. he would say things. madison said he would say things with a great round o. meaning that he often said things that madison had to fix. >> are there lots of letters between them? >> yes, there are. there is a three volume set of the jefferson-madison letters.
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it is one of the great stories. >> who was the more -- who was the better writer? >> jefferson probably. he did have a gift for flowing rhetoric. madison was the more centered of the two. jefferson would come up with proposals that were outlandish such as revising the government every 19 years. he decided that 19 years was the time of a generation and that no generation should have to live under the government -- >> so they would have a constitutional convention every 19 years. >> madison pointed out the dangers through stability. madison was so intent on getting a stable country established. under the articles of confederation, the country was a wreck. >> what was his relationship with alexander hamilton? >> they were rivals. they did not know it until hamilton became treasury secretary and began making really expansive proposals for the federal government.
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hamilton believed anything that was within the realm of the general welfare was something that congress could act upon. madison, who had been at the constitutional convention the whole time whereas hamilton dropped in and out, madison knew what the framers had done was create a government of very limited powers. the two of them came to parting of the ways on this issue. on hamilton's side was washington and on madison's was jefferson. >> jefferson and hamilton often had that different idea of what america should look like. >> exactly. >> when these people -- do they have a sense of their own greatness? >> i think they had a sense of what an amazing opportunity this was to change the course of humankind, to make history. they wanted to do a very good job of making history because they all had this concept that one form of immortality was fame. by that, they didn't mean being a rockstar, they meant affecting
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posterity so their contribution lasted for a long time. >> what were his achievements? >> he was secretary of state during the louisiana purchase. he helped convince jefferson that it was constitutional. jefferson was worrying the purchase was not constitutional. he worried so long that it looked like napoleon might pull back the offer which help to get jefferson on board. madison said you have treaty power. the federal government can certainly acquire land this way. >> i never understood why napoleon did it. why did he sell it? >> one thing that happened was that french troops had been slaughtered in san domingo. that was the french entry port to north america. two things kept that from being successful. one was yellow fever which
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decimated the ranks of the french troops and the other was toussaint louverture who was a slave. slaves had declared themselves free and they fought so hard to keep their freedom. eventually through subterfuge, napoleon managed to get toussaint captured and put in a prison in switzerland. 500,000 people who didn't want to be slaves again. >> how long did madison live? >> he died at 86. >> they lived long too, didn't they? >> it is very interesting. they knew how to take care of themselves. i think it is the same today in many ways. if you make it past a certain age then your longevity is assured. but, they understood the importance of exercise. they understood the importance of not eating too much, not
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drinking too much. >> the foods didn't have the same substances that we have now with all the sugar that is part of our diet. >> that's true, but when i go to montpelier and i look at the menus. lobster? lobster at montpelier, where did it come from? i suspect the food did have some problems. people had dysentery quite frequently. >> what was the great regret of madison's life? >> slavery. he hated slavery. he was born into -- >> a family with slaves. >> exactly. he knew it was wrong. he lamented it, but he couldn't figure out how to get out of it. if you freed your slaves, they couldn't stay in virginia. that was a law in virginia. neighboring states said they couldn't come there. at the end of his life, madison and some other great men of the early period formed a society to colonize freed slaves to liberia.
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the problem was the slaves had grown up in the united states, they didn't want to live in liberia. you can kind of see madison clinging to this idea and just hoping it would help somehow but he died. >> did madison and jefferson talk about this in letters? >> about slavery -- i cannot recall them talking about it in letters. >> because jefferson obviously accepted slavery. >> he did. where you see it in madison's letters are to other people mostly where he talks about --during the revolution there was a plan to give every person who enlisted a slave. madison objected to that. we are fighting a revolution for human freedom and would make more sense to enlist slaves as soldiers. >> his great ambition beyond slavery was what? >> the union. the notion that we can have a great extended country that was protected. people always thought this was
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impossible. that you could only have representative government or a republic within a very small dominion where everyone thought and believed alike. madison thought that was a fiction and that an expanded government would have so many interests at work that no one of them could become dominant. >> how big of an achievement was the federalist papers? >> it is huge. it is perhaps the most significant piece of political writing from the early republic. it was written at breakneck speed. i love knowing that because they were so smart. they were still writing the conclusion. madison did the equivalent of writing a 10 page paper every day for over one month. it became immortal. they were an amazing set of fellows. >> was that a proud achievement of his? >> the federalist papers? yes.
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i like to point out his modesty. when jefferson died, he had a cenotaph over his grave in which he inscribed his great accomplishments. >> it did not list being president. >> that is correct. madison didn't even have a burial marker. if he had had one and he were to list his greatest accomplishments, i think it would certainly be the constitution and the bill of rights. it would also be an absolute commitment to intellectual freedom that he carried with him throughout his life. >> here is my other question -- george bush 43 often said it is too early to know how his administration would be judged. they were still writing books about george washington which at last count there were huge amount. same thing is true about so many of the founding fathers. you come along and write a book that has very good reviews, people citing it as the best understanding of madison. what is new?
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are there new sources? do you have access of different things that other historians have not had? >> there is some truth to the latter fact. madison had a wastrel stepson, a young man who gambled and drank and womanized, who began to take papers out of montpelier and sell them. you can still find uncatalogued madison papers and i have a friend on the eastern shore of maryland who has two that are important. they didn't shape the book but there is a manuscript at princeton library that has not been published that was very important. >> what kind of politician was
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he? >> terrific. absolutely. i am so impressed when i think of what he accomplished with the bill of rights. he read everything that had ever been submitted as possible amendments to the constitution. his friends did not want it to go through the congress. his enemies were determined it would not go through and he was very savvy and got it through. >> his relationship with john adams? >> john adams was president when the alien and sedition acts were passed. people did not understand there would be a legitimate opposition. they fought the revolution, they had a government. if you opposed it, so the thinking went, you must be a traitor of some kind. that way of thinking led to the sedition acts which made it a crime to criticize people in higher office. madison understood, this is part of his political genius, in a republic you needed an opposition. he understood that after hamilton started expansively
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interpreting the constitution. he started -- madison started. jefferson is usually given credit but it was really madison who came up with the philosophical basis for a political party and took steps to get it organized. >> was there an evolution in his thinking about a strong central government? >> absolutely. in the beginning, he was so worried about the states and what they were doing to personal freedom. coining money, taking people's property away. the articles of confederation were remarkably unsuccessful so madison thought we needed a strong central government. when he saw hamilton in action -- >> not that strong. >> the threat had changed. it was not the states. it was this federal government and that is when his absolute dedication to limited government
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became clear. >> you discovered he had epilepsy. >> exactly. that was his manuscript i was talking about at princeton. people have known about it, but no one has really taken it seriously. madison was not a fellow who used words lightly so when he said that he had sudden attacks somewhat resembling epilepsy, i decided he needed to be taken seriously. i spent a lot of time looking at when these attacks probably happened. i spent a lot of time talking to epilepsy experts. i didn't want to wander into this territory with my liberal arts training and get some real medical experts involved. it is pretty clear he did have complex partial seizures. >> what does dick cheney think about james madison? >> he loves james madison and
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the book. >> did he read it chapter by chapter? >> i'm not sure. i know his copy of the book is underlined and there are checkmarks. >> my question is, is he an editor for you at all? >> oh, no. >> when you finish a chapter or several finished chapters, do you say take a look at this? >> not really. he looked at it when it was neatly put together. >> can you look at the founding fathers on any kind of liberal-conservative spectrum? >> it is confusing. >> it is. most people would think jefferson because of his fierce defense of absolute freedom belongs on the left. >> madison as well. the party that they both belong to that madison led the way in founding was called the democratic republican party. this has caused so much confusion over the years. in so many ways, it is like the republican party in believing in little government, low taxes, low debt. in fact, it is the predecessor of the democratic party. this is just to illustrate some of the confusion. >> what was the most surprising
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thing you found beyond the epilepsy in terms of the relationships among them? i am really fascinated by the idea of these men because we knew they are all geniuses and great men. often, greatness comes when you have a great opportunity and this is clearly what happened in the founding of the nation has stood as the longest democracy and copied around the world. >> i decided there were some secrets of success to be learned for madison. one secret of success is be modest. this won't work in politics if you have a lot to be modest about, but his gifts were bound to shine through. being modest and nice just burnished his reputation. another is don't let the perfect be the enemy of the possible. he didn't think the constitution was quite the document that we needed, but he reconciled himself and was key to ratifying it. my favorite one is marry well
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which he did with dolly. that was a very good choice. the last one is be lucky. he was very fortunate in the time in which he was born which is your point. the gifts he had had he been born 50 years earlier or later wouldn't have been history changing as they were in that particular time and place. >> he got to know jefferson because of virginia politics or because -- >> yes. they didn't live so far apart -- 30 miles basically. >> did he go to work for jefferson? when he was 28 or something? >> when jefferson was governor, madison served on what was called the council of state, like the cabinet. >> after jefferson left the presidency, what was a relationship between the two of
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them? >> jefferson was always free with his advice. this is one of the things that made jefferson -- >> about everything. >> such an interesting friend. when he was in paris, he was quite sure that he knew what the constitutional convention should be doing. he was across the ocean and months apart in terms of communication, but he never hesitated to offer his advice. >> what happened when washington burned? >> well, madison whom some people have said was sickly and one of the things i try to show in this book is not true. madison spent about 60 hours on horseback. he was 63 years old riding out to rally the troops. he rode to the battle. he had to retreat back to washington. he had to go across the river. there was a wonderful description of going up the virginia side of the potomac and looking out and seeing the flames burning the government buildings. >> let me talk about you today and your husband today. all the questions i need to ask about him i could ask him, not you.
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>> i will be happy to try. [laughter] >> was the last four years of the bush administration meaningful for him? >> sure. >> he said to me it wasn't like the first four. >> i think there is no doubt about that. relationships change and shift. the president runs his white house the way he wants to. >> he makes the changes he wants to make. >> exactly. >> clearly, his chief of staff was the hardest thing for him. the fact that he was convicted. >> oh, scooter. yes. it is one of the great personal disappointments because this is a fine man who got caught up in what i call the politics of personal destruction. he suffered for that. yes. >> that became in a sense a part of -- it was -- it strained the relationship? >> absolutely. dick thought scooter should be pardoned and the president in
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the end decided not to. >> your daughter ran for the senate and decided to withdraw. >> she did. she had some difficulties in her family. really not little ones. she thought that she could not continue her campaign. >> meaning? >> children. >> there was also a public conflict with her sister. >> that is true. it is an interesting family we have. >> my impression is that you and the vice president had always been great and upfront in terms of mary and her choices and respect for her choices. in a sense, always argued it is up for the states to decide things -- >> dick made that wonderful
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statement in 2000 in the debate with joe lieberman when asked about having a gay daughter and gay marriage. he said freedom means freedom for everyone. people should be free to enter into any kinds of relationships they want. when it comes to legal issues, it is up to the states to decide. that is where madison would be actually. this is not a power of the federal government. >> what's your next book? >> i'm not sure. this decade of the 1790's is so interesting because the turmoil was even greater than in our own time. the result was to create the strong country we have today. >> the jefferson campaigns for president were some of the roughest and toughest in terms of accusations of all kinds of slanderous comments. it makes anything we see now
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look reasonably mild, don't they? >> the paper -- a famous scandal monger published a rumor first that hamilton was giving money to this man to speculate. that was a great charge because hamilton was secretary of the treasury. hamilton took charge of his own defense which is usually a mistake. he wrote a pamphlet in which he said he wasn't a speculator, he was an adulterer. he was giving this fellow money because he was sleeping with his wife to keep him quiet. [laughter] the more things change. >> did i hear you say that you thought the release of this monica lewinsky thing was something that you attributed to the clintons or what? >> i specifically said i can't imagine "vanity fair" publishing an article that mrs. clinton didn't think was ok.
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>> meaning that graydon carter wouldn't publish an article that he didn't think she would like? >> yes. >> why do you believe that? >> he has been her great supporter and there is reason -- >> he is a pretty intrepid editor. >> if you are of my persuasion -- >> what is your persuasion? >> i'm a conservative. you don't think "vanity fair" is exactly broad-minded. >> graydon was very much against the war. >> he has always been -- his relationship with president clinton may be not quite as warm as his relationship with mrs. clinton. he has been her longtime supporter. it is, if you think about it, it is so smart to get this out of the way now. rand paul has been bringing it up. it is an issue. if sexual harrassment is such a
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thing in our society now -- >> is it an issue for her or him? >> rand paul is certain it's an issue for her, too. >> why is that? >> i'm not sure exactly i understand. i guess maybe she should've taken a stronger stand against it. >> the problem i have with that argument is that you don't really know how strong someone acted within the confines of their own privacy. >> this is such an issue now for feminists and rightly so. the idea of power relationships. a 21-year-old intern and a 50-something-year-old president of the united states. this is the classic example of power being used inappropriately. >> why do you think america seems to have forgiven the president? >> he's such a genial fellow. we talked about milton -- he's a
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really interesting figure. >> in other words, he's a likeable guy. >> i think so. >> some say it is because he had been a good president. >> in some ways, he was. >> the economy was doing well at the time. >> the economy is the main thing people look at when they think of those years. still -- call me old-fashioned -- i'm appalled of the idea and the disparity in age and status. i think that most feminists would be but they want to support hillary, too. >> say that again. >> i think most feminists are appalled at the disparity in age and status, but also very much want to support hillary who never spoke out and said this was sexual harrassment and wrong. maybe it is too much to expect, but that is a kind of expectation in the air. >> do you think she will have to address this if she becomes the nominee of her party?
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>> not if we get it out of the way with the "vanity fair" article. >> the idea is to get past this right now and then it will not be an issue. >> you can declare it old news again. >> give me a sketch of what you -- i am just asking you -- do you disagree over many things? >> no. it would be so much more interesting if we did, but we have been married almost 50 years. we met each other in high school. we have kind of grown together. >> dick cheney had a rough beginning. he was in and out of college. >> he was in and out of jail. [laughter] >> we shouldn't hold that against him, should we? >> when he was 18 and 21, i very much held it against them. not said in so many words, i indicated in many ways that we could not get married unless he turned into a responsible person.
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>> you made him a responsible person? >> no, i basically indicated this was not my way. i was so angry with him because he had so many gifts. i knew what an amazing person he was. he was squandering them. >> the country looks at the iraqi war and clearly that is an issue. look at what happened to condoleezza rice. >> that is ridiculous. >> i believe people should be allowed to speak. >> she is a role model in so many ways. >> does that say something to you about how so many, especially young people, feel about that war? >> my impression is this was not an uprising on the part of half the student body at rutgers. it was an uprising by a couple of left-wing professors and some students who followed them like lemmings.
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about that war? it was not the kind of thing we saw in the 1960's. >> the university should've been able to withstand that, shouldn't it? >> that is exactly the point. >> it was just a couple of professors and a couple of students. >> one would think. condi herself decided it would be too disruptive. >> the book is called "james madison: a life reconsidered." lynne cheney, thank you. >> thank you. ♪
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>> this week on "political capital," treasury secretary jack lew talking about china, ukraine, and the economy. indira lakshmanan and julianna goldman on putin and obamacare. greg stohr on the supreme court's power of prayer and margaret carlson and lanhee chen debating the republican establishment and monica lewinsky. we begin the program with united states treasury secretary jack lew. thank you for being with us, mr. secretary. you're taking off for china on sunday. an important trip. chinese growth slowed from 10% to 7.4%. how likely is it that the chinese will introduce new


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